Ohio State Rivalry

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Ohio State Rivalry

Post  amg424 on Mon 28 May 2012, 7:03 pm

As I discussed in other posts how cultivating a rivalry with Ohio State makes both emotional and practical sense, TYT provides great analysis of the institutional Penn State-Ohio State rivalry and why a Penn State-Ohio State hockey rivalry is both desirable and possible in his Three Stars for last week. He links to an article from Columbus Wired.

Thank You Terry wrote:Since the days of Villanova, Niagara College, Michigan-Dearborn, Ohio and Delaware are gone (or soon to be gone in OU's case), Penn State needs a new archrival. That one team you hate over all others, and they hate you on the same level. The one where you say "I'd gladly go 4-30, as long as the four come against them" (even if that's not entirely true) and do silly things like refuse to speak or type that team's name. And unlike in football, I think it has a shot of happening for NCAA men's hockey.

In football, Penn State is the other woman in a rivalry love triangle involving Ohio State and Michigan. There have been and will be years where PSU-OSU means more than OSU-Michigan. That affair from 2005-2009 - which took place while Michigan was on an extended business trip to Irrelevantistan - was quite fun. But at the end of the day, even after promising to end things, the Buckeyes will always end up back with their wife, leaving PSU to the domain of angry texting and futile attempts to break them up.

The good news? Michigan's married to Michigan State in hockey. Anything you see saying otherwise comes from people who don't follow the sport closely and assume Michigan pairs off with Ohio State for everything. While it's hard to just declare a rival and have it be so (these things need time to develop), there are reasons to be encouraged.

The article from Columbus Wired mentions how GG has discussed a rivalry with Ohio as well:

Guy Gadowsky wrote:Geographically, you can say that (Ohio State is a top rival). I think they have done a great job… They are a tremendous program. Mark Osiecki does a great job. He had great experiences at Wisconsin and knows exactly what he is doing. They’re going to be a tough, tough opponent. Because of geography, they will be a natural rival. But one thing I learned from watching football and basketball and things like that is when you play anybody in the Big Ten, it will be a war.

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Re: Ohio State Rivalry

Post  TYTKyle on Fri 01 Jun 2012, 3:29 am

Rivalry, rivalry, rivalry!

For completely selfish reasons, I hope PSU-OSU becomes off-the-map huge (please try to keep up, Buckeyes).

One thing that I never thought I'd say about a Penn State team: because of the conference shakeup and PSU's role in that, and maybe because of some other things (you know what I mean - ask Neumann about it), we might end up as one of those black-hat teams that fans everywhere generally dislike. To some extent, we're there already. Except unlike Duke in basketball, people will actually be able to articulate reasons.

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Re: Ohio State Rivalry

Post  amg424 on Fri 01 Jun 2012, 2:35 pm

TYTKyle wrote:Rivalry, rivalry, rivalry!

For completely selfish reasons, I hope PSU-OSU becomes off-the-map huge (please try to keep up, Buckeyes).

One thing that I never thought I'd say about a Penn State team: because of the conference shakeup and PSU's role in that, and maybe because of some other things (you know what I mean - ask Neumann about it), we might end up as one of those black-hat teams that fans everywhere generally dislike. To some extent, we're there already. Except unlike Duke in basketball, people will actually be able to articulate reasons.

I hope that Penn State beats them in Pittsburgh. Penn State needs a name to call them other than Ohio State, like you implied in your post about how fanbases refuse to write the name of their rivals. Cornell refers to Harvard as "Sucks" (from "Harvard Sucks") and Michigan refers to Ohio State in football recently as "Ohio" as to equate them with the Bobcats which chafes the Buckeyes. The latter would be confusing with the fact that the real Ohio and Penn State have a historic hockey rivalry.
'Suckeyes" always exists. I'm getting ahead of myself with thinking what chants/banter can be used.

It seems like the lingering seething about The Realignment has settled among most CCHA programs. It is the large programs of the WCHA, Minnesota and NoDak specifically, that continue to vilify Penn State for "destroying" the WCHA. I think that could lead to some interesting banter between the Gophers and Penn State once B1G Hockey starts.

As for Neumann's favorite topic, I am not sure how much vitriol that will cause toward Penn State in the college hockey world, but, disappointingly, I would not be too surprised if one of Penn State's B1G rivals began using references in their taunts. The Lynah Faithful on their forum have decided it's inappropriate, but, well, the Knucklebucks (dumb name that Ohio State fans have given themselves, as few of them as there are) and the Children of Yost do many things that the Lynah Faithful consider tactless and crass.

Winning: let's give college hockey and B1G Hockey another reason to hate Penn State than the other two. cheers

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Re: Ohio State Rivalry

Post  cagney on Fri 01 Jun 2012, 11:03 pm

It certainly makes sense but it makes me feel guilty for suggesting a comparison between Penn State's future and Ohio State's past as I did in the "expectations" thread. Then again, if my worst fear for Penn State hockey is that we end up like Ohio State then maybe we should look for a more worthwhile rival? Very Happy

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Re: Ohio State Rivalry

Post  TYTKyle on Sat 02 Jun 2012, 11:10 pm

I think OSU is a little bit of a cautionary tale, in that being a huge, athletically-inclined university with lots of school pride doesn't guarantee anything. There's not a single program out there that's not trying to win a national championship. Obviously, some are working with greater resources than others and really (and unfortunately, IMO), that's really what determines who sits where most of the time.

The good news is that PSU has already demonstrated more of a commitment to having a top hockey program than OSU ever has. From 1963 through 1999, the Buckeyes played in the rink the size of the Ice Pavilion (going by listed capacity - having been in it, I think it's smaller). That's insane. They finally escaped, only to be third-class citizens in a cavernous basketball arena that is 3/4 empty for games, even against Michigan.

The biggest concern I have is that PSU's a little bit saturated with very popular fall/winter sports. Football and women's volleyball overlap the first half of the season. Wrestling's obviously big at PSU. Women's basketball is on the upswing, and men's basketball may join them. Is there room for 6,000 per game in that landscape? I guess we'll find out.

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Re: Ohio State Rivalry

Post  amg424 on Sun 03 Jun 2012, 1:13 am

TYTKyle wrote:The biggest concern I have is that PSU's a little bit saturated with very popular fall/winter sports. Football and women's volleyball overlap the first half of the season. Wrestling's obviously big at PSU. Women's basketball is on the upswing, and men's basketball may join them. Is there room for 6,000 per game in that landscape? I guess we'll find out.
Michigan has a similar problem with the football-ice hockey dimension. Most tend to act like Michigan hockey does not capture the attention of Michigan until after the first semester. Also, successful scheduling can help ensure there is not competition between the two programs. None of the home football games in the 2012 season occur during a weekend when Penn State plays a hockey game at home during the 2012-13 season. It will be probably more difficult to negotiate such arrangements in the 2013-14 season with the demands of a conference schedule and the requirement to honor all the games at PIA that are a result of two-year home-and-home deals. I think that the B1G and Penn State will be able to work around conflicts somewhat with at what time each game is schedule (ie. if both hockey and football are at home, have one play in the afternoon, the other the evening). It'd be an interesting situation to have a hockey game in the afternoon on Saturday (an atypical scheduling time) and head over to a night game across the street at Beaver Stadium.

I cannot express how much I dislike rinks/arenas like The Ralph, Kohl Center, or Value City Arena. Part of college hockey is the intimacy between the fans, players and on-ice action. That's why the game I attended at MSG felt amiss. It didn't feel like a college hockey game should. It's worth the trip because it's a major event in the college-hockey landscape and has a unique energetic feel, but I'm glad that PIA will have the intimacy of a Yost or Lynah with steep gradients and smaller capacities. I could not imagine enjoying attending what amounts to a minor league pro game at The Ralph and Kohl Center. I know that Ohio State hockey got stuck with Value City rather than having it constructed with it in mind, but it suffers from the same issue.

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Re: Ohio State Rivalry

Post  bounnak on Mon 08 Oct 2012, 12:28 pm

amg424 wrote:
TYTKyle wrote:Rivalry, rivalry, rivalry!

For completely selfish reasons, I hope PSU-OSU becomes off-the-map huge (please try to keep up, Buckeyes).

One thing that I never thought I'd say about a Penn State team: because of the conference shakeup and PSU's role in that, and maybe because of some other things (you know what I mean - ask Neumann about it), we might end up as one of those black-hat teams that fans everywhere generally dislike. To some extent, we're there already. Except unlike Duke in basketball, people will actually be able to articulate reasons.

I hope that Penn State beats them in Pittsburgh. Penn State needs a name to call them other than Ohio State, like you implied in your post about how fanbases refuse to write the name of their rivals. Cornell refers to Harvard as "Sucks" (from "Harvard Sucks") and Michigan refers to Ohio State in football recently as "Ohio" as to equate them with the Bobcats which chafes the Buckeyes. The latter would be confusing with the fact that the real Ohio and Penn State have a historic hockey rivalry.
'Suckeyes" always exists. I'm getting ahead of myself with thinking what chants/banter can be used.

It seems like the lingering seething about The Realignment has settled among most CCHA programs. It is the large programs of the WCHA, Minnesota and NoDak specifically, that continue to vilify Penn State for "destroying" the WCHA. I think that could lead to some interesting banter between the Gophers and Penn State once B1G Hockey starts.

As for Neumann's favorite topic, I am not sure how much vitriol that will cause toward Penn State in the college hockey world, but, disappointingly, I would not be too surprised if one of Penn State's B1G rivals began using references in their taunts. The Lynah Faithful on their forum have decided it's inappropriate, but, well, the Knucklebucks (dumb name that Ohio State fans have given themselves, as few of them as there are) and the Children of Yost do many things that the Lynah Faithful consider tactless and crass.

Winning: let's give college hockey and B1G Hockey another reason to hate Penn State than the other two. cheers

Most Gopher fans I talk to are looking forward to B1G hockey, because we like playing Michigan and MSU. Also, because we know that UND's world revolves around their hatred of us. So I disagree with you lumping Minnesota in with UND as far as being resentful of Penn State. I think most of us are curious as to how well college hockey is going to do out there in PA, and looking forward to stomping on the PSU team during their early years.

As far as interesting banter between PSU and Gopher fans here .. yes, you'll certainly see alot more Gopher fans like myself on your board than from any other B1G school. That's because Michigan, Wisconsin, MSU, and OSU are all football schools first and foremost. I am not sure that they actually have that many hardcore hockey fans. I'ld venture to guess that most of their fans would prefer to have success in football over hockey if they had to choose one over the other. I don't think you can say that about Gopher hockey fans.

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